CLASSIC RV COMPARISONS
GGGas Versus Diesel
By: Bob Gummersall
RVers CHOICE: GAS VERSUS DIESEL POWER?
[Ed Note 01/2014: This article was first published many years ago, when the cost of fuel and the cost of money were quite different than in today's economy. However the logic of what's presented here has not changed. Note especially the comments in the "Summary" at the end if you want a clear presentation of the author's view. Incidentally, he is still furnishing a revised spreadsheet to readers that so request as noted at the bottom.]
INTRODUCTIOHave you seen guys wandering around the campground early in the morning with a cup of coffee in their hands? What do you think they are doing? They are checking out each rig and mentally justifying their own personal RV or dreaming about that new rig. These are the major questions to answer:
-- Diesel or Gas?
-- Trailer, Fifth Wheel, Class C, Class B, Class A, Toad, etc.?
-- Wheel Base, Slides, new or used, etc.?
These age old dilemmas can only be evaluated by looking individually at you own situation, means, and desires. Like our lifestyle, RV choices offer the same freedoms that we enjoy pursuing our RV deams This article does not address the EGO factor but does try to look at the choices from a financial point of view. This evaluation requires making some assumptions and I have chosen a scenario of a typical heavy use of an RV. This case assumes that 40,000 miles are driven during 4 years with one half moving the "home" part of the RV and the other half in trips to the grocery store, sightseeing, medical appointments, and like driving. We assume that this is a snowbird, living in the RV about the time and having a home base living in the RV 100 plus days per year and covering a lot of country. Lighter use yields much higher cost per day and per mile, but lower overall cost. Heavier use yields lower cost per day and per mile, but higher cost overall. Full timers can plug in their numbers and get an approximate cost from the model and then add their own campground fees to get a number that will tell you your cost of housing.
The reasonable scenario to compare this snow bird saga would be a situation where a couple, makes several trips in airplanes, boats, trains or cars; live in motels or hotels; use rental cars; and eat out for an equivalent number of days. I leave it up to you to calculate what this alternative scenario might cost. You must also add the cost of groceries and camping to the numbers shown in the charts to complete the comparison. Here is the fill in the blank form to complete your evaluation.
RV VERSUS NON-RVTravel Entirely by RV Other Forms of Travel (Air, etc)
Total Cost from table $_______________ Transportation $____________
Camping Cost _______________ Motel/Hotel ____________
Food _______________ Dining ____________
Total ________________ ____________
Back to the assumptions for the RVing. The cost of ownership is affected by financing or tying up hard earned capital. I have selected the capital method and have used 6% after tax return as the "Cost of Money". The ownership costs will be quite a bit higher for financed rigs, even though in some cases the interest can be considered tax deductible for primary or secondary house. Check with your tax accountant for this information.
Difficulty arises when comparisons are made because ego biases rational thought. I have chosen to look only at values estimated from references like the NADA and Kelley Blue Book references. I think you will find the comparisons interesting and will lead to interesting discussions with your significant other. I have owned three Class A motorhomes, tow truck campers, and several tents. I have also driven many miles behind the wheel of a passenger bus. My actual experience allowed me to perform reasonableness tests for the data presented herein. With that experience and published performance information from Trailer Life Magazines, Motorhome Magazine, manufacturers sales brochures and others, I will attempt to compare operating and ownership costs and then do some summary comparisons.
The Purchase price used is slightly lower than the MSPR to estimate the actual purchase price, since we all know that the asking prices for RV's at least 20% higher than the street price. We all know that you don't very often get the book price when you sell a used coach, but again I used a number that would represent closer to the actual sales price of a used vehicle. I tried similar wholesale new and trade-in prices and they yielded similar numbers. Using this approximate real market value procedure somewhat balances the low cost of money figure that I am using. I have chosen a 6.5% after tax cost of money.
If you don't like the assumptions that I have used, then by all means use your own, but don't email me and tell me I'm wrong because these are my estimates. I respect your right to make you own estimates. You will find an Excel spread sheet attached to this document that you can have your fun with.
COMPARISON OF RVSI will start with a car/van towing a travel trailer and end up with a luxury Class A motorhome with all the logical steps in between. The assumptions below apply to all type of RV's
Years of Ownership | 4 |
||
Yearly Mileage | 10000 |
||
Diesel Fuel Cost | $1.20 |
||
Gas Fuel Cost | $1.30 |
||
Cost of Money | 6.50% |
CAR/VAN TOWING A TRAVEL TRAILEThe car/van chosen for the evaluation is a Suburban or Ford E-250 Van and represents a tow rig with 8000 lb. towing capacity with appropriate safety. The travel trailer is a typical 30' unit with one slide out and nice trim. This would be a combination that would provide reasonable comfort driving and camping.
Purchase Price of Car/Van | 28000 |
||
Selling Price of Car/Van | 17000 |
||
Purchase Price of Travel Trailer | 20000 |
||
Selling Price of Travel Trailer | 12000 |
||
Car/Trailer Depreciation | 19000 |
||
Cost of Money | 4940 |
||
Capital Cost | 23940 |
||
Car/Van License | 400 |
1600 |
|
Trailer License | 300 |
1200 |
|
Car/Van Insurance | 600 |
2400 |
|
Trailer Insurance | 400 |
1600 |
|
Basic Service Interval/Cost | 3500 |
30 |
343 |
Major Service Interval/Cost | 36000 |
400 |
444 |
Fuel Cost MPG Solo/Towing | 14 |
9 |
4746 |
Tires Cost/Mileage | 1000 |
40000 |
1000 |
Battery Cost/Year | 300 |
5 |
240 |
Brakes Cost/Mileage | 500 |
40000 |
500 |
Operating Cost | 14073 |
||
Total Cost | 38013 |
||
Cost Per Mile | $0.95 |
PICKUP TOWING A MEDIUM HEAVY FIFTH WHEEL Here are the results comparing pickup prices listing the difference between the gas and diesel price for each year. Results were averaged for Dodge, Ford and Chevrolet all using a standard one ton, two wheel drive, manual transmission price.
Year Delta $ Diesel $ Gas $
1998 3600 24000 20400
1997 3000 21000 18000
1995 2500 18800 16300
1993 2000 14600 12600
1991 1000 10900 9900
It is clear that there remains a possibility of a price premium for a diesel engine however it reduces insignificant amount after 8 years. There is no attempt to compare performance differences between the brands. I am fully aware of the biases that exist towards individual manufacturers.
For our purposes I have selected a one ton pickup equipped to safely and legally tow a fifth wheel trailer with a Gross Vehicle Weight of 12000 lb. This would be about a 32' fiver with 2 slide outs and fitted out nicely but not luxuriously.
GAS | Diesel | |||||
Purchase Price of Pickup | 18400 |
22000 |
||||
Selling Price of Pickup | 12600 |
14000 |
||||
Purchase Price of Fifth Wheel Trailer | 71000 |
71000 |
||||
Selling Price of Fifth Wheel Trailer | 47000 |
47000 |
||||
Depreciation | 29800 |
32000 |
||||
Cost of Money | 3874 |
4160 |
||||
Capital Cost | 33674 |
36160 |
||||
Pickup License per year | 400 |
1600 |
400 |
1600 |
||
Fifth Wheel Trailer License per year | 500 |
2000 |
500 |
2000 |
||
Pickup Insurance per year | 500 |
2000 |
500 |
2000 |
||
Fifth Wheel Trailer Insurance per year | 600 |
2400 |
600 |
2400 |
||
Basic Service Interval--Cost | 3500 |
30 |
343 |
5000 |
65 |
520 |
Major Service Interval--Cost | 36000 |
400 |
444 |
50000 |
200 |
160 |
Fuel Cost MPG Solo--Towing | 14 |
9 |
4522 |
19 |
13 |
3000 |
Tires Cost--Mileage | 1000 |
40000 |
1000 |
1000 |
40000 |
1000 |
Battery Cost--Year | 300 |
5 |
240 |
300 |
5 |
240 |
Brakes Cost--Mileage | 500 |
40000 |
500 |
500 |
40000 |
500 |
Operating Cost | 15049 |
13420 |
||||
Total Cost | 48723 |
49580 |
||||
Cost Per Mile | $1.22 |
$1.24 |
CLASS C WITHOUT A TOAIt is more difficult to compare diesel engine Class C motorhomes vs. Gas engine Class C motorhomes since they are not a available in different chassis. By studying the NADA and Kelly Blue Book price guides and sticking with class C manufacturers that offer both engines in the same coach I am able to present the following information. The base for comparison was a 25' basic coach. In this comparison I assumed that there would be no towed vehicle and that the Class C would be used to go to the grocery store, etc.
Gas | Diesel | |||||
Purchase Price of Class C | 45300 |
50200 |
||||
Selling Price of Class C | 27300 |
29300 |
||||
Depreciation | 18000 |
20900 |
||||
Cost of Money | 9438 |
10335 |
||||
Capital Cost | 27438 |
31235 |
||||
Class C License per year | 850 |
3400 |
900 |
3600 |
||
Class C Insurance per year | 800 |
3200 |
800 |
3200 |
||
Basic Service Interval--Cost | 3500 |
30 |
343 |
5000 |
75 |
600 |
Major Service Interval--Cost | 36000 |
400 |
444 |
50000 |
300 |
240 |
Fuel Cost MPG | 12 |
4333 |
18 |
2667 |
||
Tires Cost--Mileage | 1000 |
40000 |
1000 |
1000 |
40000 |
1000 |
Battery Cost--Year | 300 |
5 |
240 |
300 |
5 |
240 |
Brakes Cost--Mileage | 500 |
40000 |
500 |
500 |
40000 |
500 |
Operating Cost | 13461 |
12047 |
||||
Total Cost | 40899 |
43282 |
||||
Cost Per Mile | $1.02 |
$1.08 |
MEDIUM DUTY TRUCK TOWING A LUXURY FIFTH WHEEL I choose to place a simple operating cost analysis here for medium duty trucks since they are not available with gas engines. One must realize that MD trucks have the capacity to tow weights greater than the heaviest fifth wheel trailer safely, legally, and morally and with more comfort and driving pleasure. Again we will assume 20,000 miles solo and 20,000 miles towing over a 4 year time frame. The resale market is just establishing the prices for used MD trucks and it appears that there is such a demand for used units, that a four year old truck with 80,000 miles recovers at least 85% of it's purchase price. The Heavy Fifth Wheel chosen in the evaluation is a 38" multiple slide out luxury unit.
Purchase Price of MD Truck | 65000 |
||
Selling Price of MD Truck | 55000 |
||
Purchase Price of Fifth Wheel Trailer | 78000 |
||
Selling Price of Fifth Wheel Trailer | 53000 |
||
Depreciation on Combination | 35000 |
||
Cost of Money | 4550 |
||
Capital Cost | 39550 |
||
MD Truck License per year | 700 |
2800 |
|
Fifth Wheel Trailer License per year | 700 |
2800 |
|
MD Truck Insurance per year | 700 |
2800 |
|
Fifth Wheel Trailer Insurance per year | 600 |
2400 |
|
Basic Service Interval--Cost | 5000 |
75 |
600 |
Major Service Interval--Cost | 50000 |
400 |
320 |
Fuel Cost MPG Solo--Towing | 17 |
12 |
3310 |
Tires Cost--Mileage | 1500 |
60000 |
1000 |
Battery Cost--Year | 500 |
5 |
400 |
Brake Cost--mileage | 500 |
80000 |
250 |
Operating Cost | 16680 |
||
Total Cost | 56230 |
||
Cost Per Mile | $1.41 |
CLASS A WITH A TOADComparing Diesel and Gas Class A Motorhomes is even more difficult since there are very few manufacturers that offer models that are available with both engines. Using NADA and Kelly Blue Book prices and studying Winnebago Vectra, Georgie Boy CruiseAir, Allegro Bus, and NewMar MountainAir, the following information was developed. It is assumed that a new 1993 coach was purchased in 1992, driven 40,000 miles and sold at a retail price in 1998. The Toad was a typical small SUV like a Honda CRV or Susuki Sidekick. The Luxury Coach is included just for fun so we can dream about winning the lottery and tooling around in one. It would be a typical Country Coach, Monaco, Foretravel, or NewMar Londonaire.
A towed car (toad) is added to this comparison because few if any rvers drive their motorhome to the resturant. I have chosen a typical small toad vehicle that can legally and safely be towed behind the coach. I have added the typical cost of toad bar, brake, and lights.
This is not a straight forward comparison since the chassis that these engines are in are not the same. Gas coaches use a 19,500 GVWR Chassis that is pushing its limits of safety, comfort, and pleasure. The Gas engine in this chassis is being pushed to its limits as are the transmission and other components. Gas engines in this application most always require rebuilding at about 50,000 miles. Automatic transmissions may not make it that far. These Gas chassis are short wheel bases and narrow tracks, so they do not handle very well in winds or on windy roads. It is normal to rebuild the front end of a gas coach in this 40,000 mile run. These repair costs are not included in this analysis.
The Diesel Chassis were Spartan or Oshgosh and rated at 22,500 and use medium duty truck components that are designed to go 500,000 miles without significant repair. I have personally driven a Spartan Chassis with Cummins 5.9 liter 230 hp engine with an Allison 3060 transmission for over 70,000 miles in a four year period. I can therefore verify to above costs. The diesel chassis can pull, turn, and stop comparable class A coaches far superior to the equivalent length gas coach. I can not recommend any Gas Coach that is longer than 30 feet, since that is the safe limit of that design in my opinion.
GAS | DIESEL | LUXURY | |||||||
Purchase Price of Class A | 60000 |
98000 |
250000 |
||||||
Selling Price of Class A | 40000 |
64000 |
160000 |
||||||
Purchase Price of Toad | 20000 |
20000 |
30000 |
||||||
Selling Price of Toad | 12000 |
12000 |
20000 |
||||||
Depreciation | 28000 |
42000 |
100000 |
||||||
Cost of Money | 3640 |
5460 |
13000 |
||||||
Capital Cost | 31640 |
47460 |
113000 |
||||||
Yearly | |||||||||
Class A License per year | 900 |
3600 |
1000 |
4000 |
2000 |
8000 |
|||
Toad License per year | 500 |
2000 |
500 |
2000 |
600 |
2400 |
|||
Class A Insurance per year | 1000 |
4000 |
1100 |
4400 |
2100 |
8400 |
|||
Toad Insurance per year | 500 |
2000 |
500 |
2000 |
600 |
2400 |
|||
Basic Service Interval--Cost | 3500 |
30 |
343 |
5000 |
65 |
520 |
3500 |
30 |
343 |
Major Service Interval--Cost | 36000 |
600 |
667 |
50000 |
200 |
160 |
50000 |
400 |
320 |
Fuel Cost MPG Coach--Toad | 7 |
25 |
4754 |
12 |
25 |
3040 |
8 |
25 |
4040 |
Tires Cost--Mileage | 1100 |
40000 |
1100 |
1300 |
60000 |
867 |
2400 |
50000 |
1920 |
Battery Cost--Year | 300 |
5 |
240 |
400 |
5 |
320 |
700 |
5 |
560 |
Brakes Cost--mileage | 500 |
40000 |
500 |
600 |
70000 |
343 |
1000 |
60000 |
667 |
Operating Cost | 19204 |
17650 |
29050 |
||||||
Total Cost | 50844 |
65110 |
142050 |
||||||
Cost Per Mile | $1.27 |
$1.63 |
$3.55 |
SUMMARYRving is difficult to put a dollar value on because it's a way of life. Vacation, snowbird or full time use of the RV will also effect your conclusion. It is interesting that the two major RV configurations, pickup/fiver vs. Class A, cost about the same. It is also interesting that the gas vs. diesel engine question is not answered definitively with this financial analysis. Therefore you should always chose the rig that you can afford that will be the most safe and comfortable. The other major thought is to think about what kind of other travel method would allow you to cover the ground that we do and still cost less than $12,000 per year. I would not trade the freedom and comfort of my own bed in my RV for 100 days per year for any group of airports, coach seats, rental cars, motels, restaurants, and strange beds. Would you?
Per Mile | 4 year total | Per Year | Per Day | ||||||
Car/Van towing a travel trailer | $0.95 |
$38,013 |
$9,503 |
$26 |
|||||
Gas Class C with no toad | $1.02 |
$40,899 |
$10,225 |
$28 |
|||||
Diesel Class C with no toad | $1.08 |
$43,282 |
$10,820 |
$30 |
|||||
Gas Pickup towing a medium fifth wheel | $1.22 |
$48,723 |
$12,181 |
$33 |
|||||
Diesel Pickup towing a medium fifth Wheel | $1.24 |
$49,580 |
$12,395 |
$34 |
|||||
Gas Class A with toad | $1.27 |
$50,844 |
$12,711 |
$35 |
|||||
Diesel Class A with toad | $1.63 |
$65,110 |
$16,277 |
$45 |
|||||
Diesel Medium Duty Truck with Heavy Fifth Wheel | $1.41 |
$56,230 |
$14,058 |
$39 |
|||||
Luxury Class A with toad | $3.55 |
$142,050 |
$35,512 |
$97 |
OK guys, here's where we look at justifying what we want. It is interesting to look at the gas vs. diesel question in context with cost. My personal preference is towards diesel engines and it is not hard to justify. The type of RV is the most significant factor in a cost of ownership. It is clear that to live in luxury it is less costly to have a Medium Duty Truck towing a highline fifth wheel. It is also clear that if you want to drive a Class A, it is cost justified to have a basic diesel pusher and by the way, this will be significantly safer and more comfortable to drive.
Since completing this article, I have created a spreadsheet which can help any RVer compare the cost of gas versus diesel using various types of RV types. By putting in your own estimates concerning initial cost, fuel price, etc., it provides you with a tool to make a realistic assessment of what the economic impact of various purchase options you might be considering. The spreadsheet is in Excel (Mac) format, and I'd be pleased to send it to you as an email attachment on request. Just drop me a line.
This has been fun to do and I hope you enjoyed reading it.
Drive Safe and Legal. Bob